tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post3443291030294922846..comments2023-12-26T05:33:56.740-05:00Comments on John Hanger's Facts of The Day: UPDATED Statement about today's NYT Front Page Article Suggesting Shale Gas Is Ponzi Scheme: Reader BewareJohn Hangerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06565915866938789295noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-86422200935735464442012-02-11T06:26:16.826-05:002012-02-11T06:26:16.826-05:00I like the helpful information you provide in your...<b>I like the helpful information you provide in your articles. I will bookmark your blog and check again here regularly. I'm quite certain I will learn lots of new stuff right here! Best of luck for the next!</b><br><a href="https://sites.google.com/a/prices.wholesalecompareprice.2suz.com/where-to-buy-transfer-pipettes-pipettes-industrial-for-sale/hot-deals-samco-scientific-273-3in-general-purpose-transfer-pipette-overall-capacity-1-7ml-with-bulb-draw-of-0-9ml-individually-wrapped-sterile-pack-of-500" rel="nofollow">Samco Scientific 273 3in General Purpose Transfer Pipette Overall Capacity 1.7mL With Bulb Draw Of 0.9mL Individually Wrapped Sterile (Pack Of 500)</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-48746291015303856602011-09-02T08:30:34.079-04:002011-09-02T08:30:34.079-04:00I read the article and comments as a non-expert wi...I read the article and comments as a non-expert with the knowledge that the "experts" on both sides have a vested interest in slanting their responses to best support their own interests. In truth, I believe that the accurate facts fall somewhere in the middle. More than anything else, I refuse to accept any news story that does not offer verifiable facts and instead cites anon sources. I trust news reporters only slightly more than politicians.swtrainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03396825882717308782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-69077721738438586792011-06-29T21:55:22.264-04:002011-06-29T21:55:22.264-04:00Morgaine:
I appreciate you providing this comment...Morgaine:<br /><br />I appreciate you providing this comment. Very interesting.john hangerhttp://www.johnhanger.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-43993421795710556432011-06-29T18:32:49.516-04:002011-06-29T18:32:49.516-04:00I will state up front that I worked in the oil and...I will state up front that I worked in the oil and gas service industry for 30+ years and I still have friendas in the industry. I've ridden the booms and the busts all the way. I'll also state we wouldn't be in this mess if alternative energy was more important than cheap energy at any cost.<br /><br />The Barnett is still going strong. Just because CHK has moved on doesn't mean it's over. Too many people don't understand the industry as a whole. When the majors and large independents (CHK) move on, the small independents move in. For a large company the Barnett is uneconomical under $5.00 gas, for others not necessarily.<br /><br />I haven't read the article and, honestly, won't give it the time of day. I've read the same arguments for 30+ years.<br /><br />Concerned Scientist quoted John and Daniel.<br />I agree wholeheartedly towards moving away from fossil fuels.<br />The distractions actually help the oil and gas industry.<br />Your list of issues to fight for are admirable.<br /> Minimizing surface impact is great for forested areas, but as someone said earlier find some trees to cut down in South Texas or West Texas for that matter. The regulations need to be case by case, not a blanket deal.<br />Most companies are doing all they can to minimize the truck trips. Especially at today's transportation costs.<br /><br />If you want to move away from fossil fuels I'll give you a quote from a Master's Degree student from Germany in 1988. There is one caveat, your gasoline prices will go to $10.00 per gallon quickly and natural gas will skyrocket.<br /><br />"If the US companies had to follow the regualtions we have in Germany, they couldn't afford to drill. All our locations have to covered completely in concrete with ditches to catch any water the touches the rig. Then it has to be hauled off and treated. None of it can touch the ground." He's talking about rain water also. If you get this one regulation in place a mass exodus to alternative enery will occur. This is a real conversation, not imagined.<br /><br />But let's be real. This isn't going to happen over night. It takes a coordinated effort, not a lot of one side bashing the other. When that happens it sounds like our two main political parties, the ones who day they care about us. Mainstream America has to become the driving force and quit listening to the far left and far right tell us how to live. Use your own grey matter to sort things out. The distractions provide by such articles do give the industry a reason to push back.<br /><br />I know I ramble anymore, sorry for that. Just my 2 centsMyra Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03166294900597236779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-40479097683144323852011-06-28T10:46:50.034-04:002011-06-28T10:46:50.034-04:00John, your post at 9:42 above is why I read this b...John, your post at 9:42 above is why I read this blog. You get it. <br /><br />I also buy wind energy, moved close enough to walk to work and have a hybrid for when I do drive. I too am a big supporter of moving toward wind and solar as fast as possible. <br /><br />Daniel - I am all for addressing reasonable environmental concerns and strong regulation. What gets under my skin are people who are making up problems that don't exist and forcing everyone to spend time addressing these fake issues. This distracts from the real issues. The NYT, Propublica and Gasland are forcing people to spend time on non-issues when they could be fighting for:<br /><br />Close regulation and frequent inspections<br />Minimizing surface impact with fewer well pads, <br />Minimized air pollution from drilling<br />Green completion technology<br />100% waste water recycling<br />Minimizing truck trips<br />Minimizing noise from compressors<br />Minimizing greenhouse gas emissions during drilling<br />Getting coal plants shut downConcerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-32750273329655368122011-06-28T09:42:38.426-04:002011-06-28T09:42:38.426-04:00Daniel:
I appreciate the posting and the dialogue...Daniel:<br /><br />I appreciate the posting and the dialogue. I personally buy 100% wind energy electricity product for my home from wind farms in Pennsylvania. I would urge all readers who want to accelerate renewables to do the same and to support policies that will do so. I also drive a Prius and my wife and I have bought my children each one too. I am now in the market for a Volt, made in the USA. But most of our energy for a long time is going to come from something other than renewables. Gas has many advantages over the other non-renewable options. We must work to regulate it strongly and tax it reasonably and have it displace coal and oil as much as possible.john hangerhttp://www.johnhanger.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-2415641297967571902011-06-28T09:31:22.206-04:002011-06-28T09:31:22.206-04:00After reading John’s response to Stanley (included...After reading John’s response to Stanley (included below) under another heading this morning, I take back my earlier criticism, and, in fact, applaud John's positive work for the environment. <br /><br />Stanley: I think I do know better. That is why I led Pennsylvania's successful efforts to build 16 operating wind farms, with another 4 wind farms under construction now, operate or have under construction 6,000 solar facilities, 50 biodigesters on farms, 43 landfills capturing methane and converting to electricity, and passing in 2008 Act 129, one of the five biggest electricity conservation programs in the USA. But even if one counts corn ethanol and large hydro, renewable energy will be doing well to provide 20% of total US energy in 2020. So where do you want to get the other 80% in 2020 or 89% of energy from now. Coal, oil, gas or nuclear? As we accelerate deployment of renewables to get to 20%, where is the other energy going to come from? If you don't like gas, that means you are choosing coal, oil, nuclear. But new nuclear takes at least 10 years to build and will only get built if the national government completely pays for it, as a result of the high up front capital costs, to say nothing about the waste issue. I also live in the Three Mile Island evacuation area. I can bet you the people at Fukushima wish now the power plants in their neighborhood had been gas right when the earthquake hit. So what is going to supply the other 80% from now until 2020 and then what will provide the 70% or 60%? Gas and arguably nuclear will do less damage to the environment than coal or oil. The reality is not always perfect.<br />June 27, 2011 8:44 PMDaniel Perlongonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-39694728153567286002011-06-28T07:41:49.655-04:002011-06-28T07:41:49.655-04:00To clarify the problem with skeptical remarks from...To clarify the problem with skeptical remarks from 2009 - In 2009 the production / drilling results were primarily from the Barnett with a couple of years of Fayetteville results. There really wasn't much proof to a non geologist that shale gas was for real and that it would have dramatic impact on the industry. Since then, thousands of wells in 3 or 4 more plays have provided a mountain of new evidence. In early 2009 a new well in PA that could produce 3 MMcf/d at peak was real news that an operator would be pleased to share. Yesterday we read about Cabot wells in PA that hit 30 MMcf/d. Literally, the best wells are 10 times better than when the questionable quotes were made. <br /> <br />Whether in error or by design it is invalid to use anonymous expert quotes from 2009 to assert that in 2011 we should be skeptical of shale gas production. The NYT really should be better than that.Scott Brionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14077112006336863798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-54775435416468713042011-06-28T07:04:28.140-04:002011-06-28T07:04:28.140-04:00Anonymous said...
"Someone turned me onto t...Anonymous said... <br /><br />"Someone turned me onto this blog this morning and I rather hoped that the content would be of a higher caliber. There seems to be a lot of misinformation that sounds like it came directly from industry press releases. I was hoping for more. One of the most sensible comments I see is the one from anonymous "clarifying" the confusion on nat gas. That guy knows his stuff." <br /><br />Let's see, that wouldn't have been YOU who wrote that could it? That was the most confused thing written in these comments. If you read John Hanger you will hear him criticize the industry when warranted. It could always be done better. <br /><br /><br />"To make the assumption as Concerned Scientist did, that just because companies are drilling in the Marcellus is a good indication that they are making money is ludicrous. They had a drilling frenzy in Barnett and then when the production history started looking nasty, they cleared out as fast as possible."<br /><br />You actually make my point for me here. They are not clearing out of the Marcellus - they are drilling even more. And the majors are moving in. And apparently everyone hasn't cleared out of the Barnett as the production is at a record high.Concerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-31660692855274988092011-06-28T06:28:30.622-04:002011-06-28T06:28:30.622-04:00Concerned Scientist,
I should have said overboard...Concerned Scientist,<br /><br />I should have said overboard on promoting natural gas as a source of energy at the expense of the environment, rather than "overboard on promoting the natural gas industry at the expense of the environment."<br /><br />I don't feel that I am in a holy war. I do understand that natural gas can be an improvement over coal if done in a highly regulated way, and I am grateful to John for making that clear. I think though that if we can build the political will, we can speed up the development of renewables for our energy. And I don't accept that the choice is between energy or the environment. I see the gas industry using John's blog work as a promotional tool with which to push back against people with reasonable environmental concerns. And only in that sense does his promotion of natural gas as an energy source seem to me to be at the expense of the environment.Daniel Perlongonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-73457555048843051602011-06-27T17:25:01.129-04:002011-06-27T17:25:01.129-04:00This thread provides a perfect example of why deve...This thread provides a perfect example of why developing energy policy for the U.S. is such a challenge. Too many folks seem to focus on the faults of a single energy source, without addressing the alternatives or demand. We see it with arguments against coal, wind, nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, geothermal, and natural gas. But yet, we Americans expect our stoves to heat up when we turn the knob, lights to turn on when we flip the switch, cold rooms to warm up when we crank up the thermostat, and hot water to pour from the faucet when we turn the handle.<br /><br />When will we stop pretending that all of those demands come without any cost?Ken Klemowhttp://energy.wilkes.edunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-81454845731169371072011-06-27T16:21:03.227-04:002011-06-27T16:21:03.227-04:00I am a mineral owner in the Eagle Ford... The play...I am a mineral owner in the Eagle Ford... The play runs from the Country of Mexico to East Texas. I would like to see you find a significant number of trees to cut for pads and roads in about 3/4th to the South of the play. It is mostly scrub brush. You tree huggers come on down to Texas and take a look...........Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-77963146080608232262011-06-27T16:02:43.826-04:002011-06-27T16:02:43.826-04:00Someone turned me onto this blog this morning and ...Someone turned me onto this blog this morning and I rather hoped that the content would be of a higher caliber. There seems to be a lot of misinformation that sounds like it came directly from industry press releases. I was hoping for more. One of the most sensible comments I see is the one from anonymous "clarifying" the confusion on nat gas. That guy knows his stuff. To make the assumption as Concerned Scientist did, that just because companies are drilling in the Marcellus is a good indication that they are making money is ludicrous. They had a drilling frenzy in Barnett and then when the production history started looking nasty, they cleared out as fast as possible. Ches has sold off most Barnett assets, Range completely sold out in spite of telling analysts on their call only 6 weeks earlier that the Barnett was one of their core holdings and the list goes on. Quicksilver out....Anonymous is right, we can't verify the numbers in the Marcellus so I am not putting any more eggs in this basket.<br /><br />As for the criticism of the NYT for dated material. Huh? To my mind, the fact that the material was spread over several years and was found at so many levels of these companies showed a much more comprehensive and pervasive problem. I was impressed with the Times work. Sorry guys. The same old rebuttals are starting to sound tired.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-87548853785417395972011-06-27T14:11:39.174-04:002011-06-27T14:11:39.174-04:00Anonymous,
That is not Marcellus drilling in that...Anonymous,<br /><br />That is not Marcellus drilling in that part of PA = Those are much older wells. <br /><br />I would be opposed to anything that will cause a significant change in the ecosystem. Show me evidence that this is true and I will join your fight to protect those species. Do you think building a house with a driveway every square mile would cause a similar problem? In the end, that is pretty much what the footprint will be like after they complete the wells.<br /><br />That said, I think this is a good fight. Fight for the smallest possible surface footprint. The technology exists for one well pad per square mile or even one well pad per two square miles.Concerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-16962040021491895782011-06-27T13:43:11.103-04:002011-06-27T13:43:11.103-04:00Concerned Scientist:
I encourage you to take a lo...Concerned Scientist:<br /><br />I encourage you to take a look at north-central Pennsylania in Google Earth. Zoom in and appreciate how unfragmented much of that landscape is because it isn't going to last long. <br /><br />The well pads are anywhere from 3-7 acres. Then you have the holding ponds which can be another couple acres. And I've seen wells much closer together than the figures you're using. <br /><br />Regardless, even if your figures are accurate, imagine that kind of development superimposed over the forests of north-central Pennsylvania. It is going to have a profoundly significant impact on those forests. And it isn't just a concern about viewsheds...it is about species decline. Pennsylvania is blessed to have such intact forests in the central part of the state. Marcellus and Utica shale gas drilling is going to fundamentally and, perhaps, irreparably alter that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-24404134271172462212011-06-27T13:09:19.174-04:002011-06-27T13:09:19.174-04:00NYT has zero credibilityNYT has zero credibilityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-3207794711950150192011-06-27T12:35:43.551-04:002011-06-27T12:35:43.551-04:00Thanks for the post John. Hats off to the Times fo...Thanks for the post John. Hats off to the Times for their online source material and links to the actual emails & reports in question, but it brings to light a real problem with article in that it relies on a lot of dated material. Many of the quotes and skepticism are from 2009 or 2010 source material. I was a shale gas skeptic in 2009. Today, following the Marcellus closely, it is absurd to think that the industry's 2009 well and potential reserve estimates were overly optimistic. To the contrary, wells have proved to be bigger with flatter initial declines than anticipated. Clearly, how wells will continue to perform overtime is a big question, but the evidence so far is compelling. For reference, in March of 2009 Chesapeake suggested they had 4,100 risked net undrilled wells and expected avg. reserves per well of 3.75 BCF over their 1.3 million net acre position. By October 2010 their actual well results indicated average EUR over 5 BCF. PA production data at year end 2010 suggested that 5 BCF might be low for their Pennsylvania wells. At a minimum, Chesapeake publicly underestimated the potential in Bradford and Susquehanna counties by a significant factor. <br /><br />Today there is a strong case to be made that shale gas has been the opposite of a Ponzi scheme. The operators that may have gotten into trouble are the ones that have underestimated the scope of the shale gas impact on gas price. The Barnett and Haynesville have not disappointed, they just have to compete with the Marcellus and the Eagle Ford. Again with Chesapeake, on March 2009 they predicted per well EUR to average 6.5 in the Haynesville and by October 2010, their wells were averaging production consistent with 6.5 BCF EUR production. The disappointing part was that the price of gas in fall of 2010 was closer to $4.00 than the $6.00 + price that Chesapeake and nearly everyone else anticipated. Arguably the abundance of shale gas reserves is a major factor in the historically low price of gas.Scott Brionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14077112006336863798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-48280510487928114162011-06-27T11:57:57.826-04:002011-06-27T11:57:57.826-04:00Anonymous said...
"Hey John,
Tell m...Anonymous said...<br /><br /> "Hey John,<br /><br /> Tell me something. How does someone who was in PennFuture and in charge of the DEP feel about the fragmentation that is certainly going to occur to Pennsylvania's forests as a result of Marcellus (and Utica) shale drilling?"<br /><br />This person is a bit off base but does hit on what I think is the real thing that environmental groups should be fighting for and that is for minimal visual and surface impact. <br /><br />This person is off base because the landscape will hardly be "industrialized." The plan is to have a well pad every 480-640 acres from which multiple wells are drilled. 640 acres is a square mile. It might even be possible to have one well pad every two square miles. The well pads will require about 3-5 acres of clearing plus a road. So say the road takes up 2 acres of land that is about 5-7 total acres. Let's call it 6.4 acres. 6.4/640 = 1/100. So roughly 1/100 of the land is/will be cleared. The actual tanks and well heads will probably cover about 1/2 to 1 acre of that land. So it is hardly industrialization of the landscape. A house or barn would have a similar impact.<br /><br />In a wooded area, it will be hard to see the well sites from farther than a hundred yards. In cleared areas, well sites could be an eyesore for some distance. I would be for strong community involvement in the placing of well pads to minimize visual impacts. Perhaps creative things could be done to camouflage the well sites. This is a battle worth fighting though.<br /><br />I find it unlikely that this will destroy any ecosystems but am open to the idea that it could happen. Everything possible should be done to make sure this does not happen. I would be very interested to see any actual studies by disinterested scientists on this.Concerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-3162158164065578202011-06-27T11:43:54.805-04:002011-06-27T11:43:54.805-04:00I supported and continue to support Governor Rende...I supported and continue to support Governor Rendell's Executive Order imposing a 3-year moratorium on further drilling in the state forests. Indeed John Quigley and I recommended to Governor Rendell that he issue the order. He issued the order after the House of Representatives passed a bill imposing a state forest moratorium by a vote of 150 to 50 and after the state senate refused to vote on the bill in October 2010. Governor Corbett said in the campaign that he would immediately rescind the Executive Order. He has not so far done so. Doing so would probably mean the state forests lose their sustainability certification and that in turn would cause thousands of timbering jobs that require the certification to be lost.<br /><br />As to private lands, I have consistently said private land owners should be allowed to make decisions about the use of their lands and that any gas drilling that occurs on private lands at the direction of their owners must be strongly regulated. I enacted 4 packages of regulations from September 2008 to January 2011 that all strengthen the regulation of this industry. Regulations include site controls and restoration requirements. I also support a drilling tax with proceeds in part funding Growing Greener to address many of our legacy, continuing habitat, water and other problems. That funding would be an opportunity to do important restoration work.<br /><br />I have also said that gas drilling is industrial activity that cannot be done without zero impact. It does have impacts.<br /><br />But its impacts are much less in the production and combustion process than coal and oil. This nation gets 60% of its total energy from coal and oil. You say no to gas you are saying yes to coal and oil. Nobody has done more than me in Pa for renewables and energy conservation. I am thrilled that we have 16 operating wind farms and 4 more under construction and that we have 6,000 operating or under construction solar systems. Renewables and efficiency are vital and should be accelerated. But renewables will have a great decade if they account for 20% of total US energy by 2020. That will leave 80% coming from coal, oil, gas or nuclear. That is the reality.john hangerhttp://www.johnhanger.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-29254687102025057162011-06-27T11:26:23.627-04:002011-06-27T11:26:23.627-04:00Hey John,
Tell me something. How does someone wh...Hey John,<br /><br />Tell me something. How does someone who was in PennFuture and in charge of the DEP feel about the fragmentation that is certainly going to occur to Pennsylvania's forests as a result of Marcellus (and Utica) shale drilling? <br /><br />We all hear about water and that is obviously important. But from a broader forest ecosystem perspective, the next decade is going to fundamentally transform rural PA forestland from intact, functioning ecosystems to fragmented industrialized landscapes. <br /><br />And you are ok with that? Because there is no "lessening" the impact on the ground. You can possibly do everything you can to protect ground and surface water - but you have to cut the trees down for the roads and well pads. And that is going to devastate our forests (state and private).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-63552555093485052612011-06-27T11:13:14.708-04:002011-06-27T11:13:14.708-04:00Continued from previous post
"4.) Your comme...Continued from previous post<br /><br />"4.) Your comments about the Marcellus are misleading, reckless and irresponsible because there is simply not enough data available yet on a large enough quantity of wells to adequately determine whether the play is indeed sound. There is, however, significant data available in older plays like the Barnett and Haynesville which clearly shows that the wells do not meet expectations. By the way, the Penn St. professor you refer to did state that the Haynesville "has not lived up to expectations", a point you failed to mention."<br /><br />The Barnett, Haynesville and Marcellus have different economics. They are not the same geologically, are different distances from the market and some have associated liquids. Is this message getting through? <br /><br />Companies that started drilling wells in the Marcellus 5 years ago are still drilling wells today - in fact they are escalating their drilling programs. What does this tell you? The Marcellus is exceeding the expectations of most companies and analysts. That is just a fact. <br /><br />"5.) your point about the Majors interesting in that you failed to note that the Majors have been unable to grow reserves for over a decade now. Reserve growth drives share price. Perhaps, just perhaps, they see the "incredible growth" in shale reserve claims as a way to boost their own share prices. These companies, unlike their shale counterparts, actually DO sit on mountains of cash, so why not invest in growing your reserves that way and thereby boost your share price. If you don't think this is a possibility, think again!"<br /><br />These companies are in it for the long haul. They see the future and it is shale. They do want their stock prices to go up but they also want to make money and to be here in 50 years. As upsetting as it may be to you, the Marcellus is a money-maker for most companies involved. <br /><br /><br />"6.) And finally, as to liquids production, also called unconventional oil, you failed to note that it is the most carbon intensive, least efficient hydrocarbon to burn. In addition, it requires substantially more water and in general costs far more to produce than traditional sources of oil. The reason these companies are moving into this is because they are geared up to do horizontal production and the monies have dried up for them to some extent in the capital markets. They needed a new vehicle under which to raise monies. And how very convenient that, just like shale gas, these plays are new and we will not be able to verify numbers for quite some time on the individual plays. A bit too convenient if you ask me."<br /><br />I think you are confusing oil/condensate from the Marcellus, Bakken and Eagle Ford with the tar sands of Alberta. The Marcellus, Bakken and Eagle Ford plays are not nearly as energy and water intensive as the tar sands operations. You might want to read up on the difference. The tar sands have to be heated to reduce the viscosity and get the oil to flow - that is why it is so carbon intensive. There is no heating involved with Marcellus, Bakken or Eagle Ford.Concerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-89043612516578534902011-06-27T11:12:24.645-04:002011-06-27T11:12:24.645-04:00Wow - get this guy a job at the New York Times!
&...Wow - get this guy a job at the New York Times!<br /><br />"Anonymous said... <br /><br />1.) The U.S. has ALWAYS produced virtually all the natural gas it consumes so arguments from industry and it would seem government officials such as yourself about saving us from terrorism, protecting national security, etc. are simply hype."<br /><br />UMM, prior to shale gas it looked like production had peaked in 2001 and was declining into 2006. no matter how many wells we drilled production continued to decline. this led to the big price spike. We were importing about 25% of our gas as of 2007 and are still importing about 18%. We were talking about building huge Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) terminals and importing gas from the Middle East and other parts of the world. This may still happen but shale gas is making that much less attractive. See this website for the facts<br /><br />http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_a.htm<br /><br />2.) Gas prices historically are about $6/mcf. We are trading closer today to historic prices than in 2008 when they hit $14/mcf. That was the TRUE aberration. Even a price of $8 which you mention is still an aberration from historic prices and a level we are not likely to see within at least the next 5 years.<br /><br />Gas prices were next to nothing from 1922 to the late 1970s, $2-3/mcf from 1980-1999. The price spike happened when it looked like production had peaked. The price has come back down now to around $4/mcf. My guess is that it will drift upward over time to around $5 where most LNG works and that will keep the price in the $5-$6 range. See this website for the facts<br /><br />http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9190us3a.htm<br /><br /><br /><br />"3.) Which segues nicely to the next point, which is that had these shale operators been running their businesses in a prudent manner then production would have been choked off and wells shut in quite some time ago. Instead, they chose to keep producing. Why? Because they had to keep up debt service and since they had NO CASH on their books they could not do this without bringing more and more gas online. That is exceedingly poor resource stewardship. Not something to brag about."<br /><br />They drilled the wells when gas as $8/mcf, then it dropped to $4. What would you do? They don't control the price. The wells are already drilled and they have to pay to maintain and operate them. Also, companies sometimes have to drill wells that don't make sense economically to hold on to their leases. They want to hold on to their leases in hopes that the price will go up again. <br /><br />It's a risky business and some companies do go broke gambling on the price of gas. It's difficult when it changes as much as it has over the past few years.Concerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-64963887898083459812011-06-27T10:57:47.834-04:002011-06-27T10:57:47.834-04:00@Concerned Scientist, you're right, the point ...@Concerned Scientist, you're right, the point is that the industry shouldn't be trusted. An article that compared the different shale plays would also be good, but that's not what this article was about. It also wasn't really about MS being a Ponzi scheme (that was a quote from an industry representative, not Urbina). As for the anonymous quotes, the extraction industry (and corporations in general) have a pretty un-favorable view of whistle blowers. Some people in my town won't even talk to me about fracking because they're afraid they'll lose their job. It's not surprising at all that people are nervous to tell a reporter that the Official Story coming from the industry is, in this case, exaggerated.<br /><br />@John Hangar, the AP article only quotes the numbers and experiences of the industry. Of course it's great news, but I think Urbina's article would caution readers to take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Of course they're going to say Marcellus Shale drilling is all rainbows and ponies. They want to do more of it. <br /><br />I also think that you've got to move past Urbina's Feb. article that you felt wronged you. Other major outlets agreed with that article, and it seemed to have lead to more testing, and verification that radiation has not leaked. That's great news. In this article, he's done what an investigative reporter should do, he identified a source of information and wrote about it. If you have reason to disagree with what was in those emails, then that's great, but I'd call it good reporting. <br /><br />@Carbon Black, you're right, it was an open-records request, not a FOIA. But I believe it is in the same spirit of accountability.G. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10769920745579306671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-62510932723038736592011-06-27T10:48:57.121-04:002011-06-27T10:48:57.121-04:00Dear John Hanger,
Thank you for your fact-based re...Dear John Hanger,<br />Thank you for your fact-based response to the NYT front-page non-factual story. I wonder if the NYT will run your response as a Letter to the Editor. They should given the prominence and controversial nature of Mr. Urbin's story. If they do not, the NYT should be labeled as a flame-throwing tabloid rather than a respected news organization that engenders honest reporting and open debate.R. Beauregardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4664957094233317169.post-67423088739249889592011-06-27T10:27:52.643-04:002011-06-27T10:27:52.643-04:00Daniel Perlongo said...
"I quote from Mi...Daniel Perlongo said...<br /><br /> "I quote from Mitch Troutman's article at Pennsylvania From Below, 5/23/2011, which I find quite convincing in considering your criticism of Ian Urbina to be unfair, and, once again, overboard on promoting the natural gas industry at the expense of the environment."<br /><br />I don't see John Hanger as promoting the natural gas industry at all. I see him promoting natural gas as a source of energy. There is a big difference! The industry needs to be closely regulated and few have done more to make this happen than John Hanger. If his allegiance was to the gas industry he would not have increased regulations, fees or oversight, all of which cost the industry money. This is a very important distinction. <br /><br />It highlights an important point. It is very common for people who are concerned about global warming and pollution to be anti-oil industry. For many this is a holy war - anything the industry does must be evil. There are some, like John Hanger, who can get past that sort of holy war mentality and see that natural gas is a whole helluva lot better than coal and oil as a source of energy from an environmental perspective. If you really care about global warming and the environment, then you should be FOR well-regulated shale gas development. There is no single thing that will reduce carbon emissions and pollution more over the next decade than switching from coal to gas. <br /><br />The industry wants to make money and will do what it takes to turn a profit. Count on that as their primary motivation. But in this case, the thing that they want to do to make money just happens to be in our best interest environmentally. <br /><br />Now for many, the holy war aspect is more important than what is actually best for the environment here in the real world. For these people, their identity is wrapped up in being against the oil and gas industry or the "evil other." So everything is viewed through that lens. It would help if people were not like this but I am afraid there are more who take sides like fans of a football team or adherents to a religion than who just look at the facts and make a decision.Concerned Scientistnoreply@blogger.com